Spirit of the Fray

[HankMcormick]

So the other day, in that huge fight, I called out a high number of traits, and was told that my Spirit of the Fray traits didn't count.

I don't understand why not.

From LoTW:

"Spirit of the Fray: You can strike like lightning, preempting even the fastest
opponents. This Gift is always in effect. You are considered to have 10 (yes, 10)
additional Traits for initial challenges, and can spend a Gnosis Trait for an additional
10 for a single challenge. Remember that Garou can’t spend Rage and Gnosis in the
same turn, so buying the initiative edge this way means that you can’t spend Rage for extra actions."

From our House Rules:

"Spirit of the Fray: This Gift is always in effect and will
function on the first aggressive challenge made by its user in every
turn of combat. It is not applicable to follow up actions, whether from
Rage spent, offhand attack, etc."

There is nothing that says it is only used for initiative, and it specifically calls out when I can NOT bid those traits.

Just wanna clear up some confusion here.

Thank for you help!

[Founder]

I often look back to the (tabletop) core rulebook for guidance when things aren't totally clear, but the biggest indicator in LotW:Rev is "buying the initiative edge."

Anecdotally, when I made my first ever Werewolf LARP character (the one I'm still playing up at Under an Eerie Moon), I bought Spirit of the Fray with freebies and added 10 traits to my first ever brawling attack. I got a stern talking to by the ST and I paused to scratch my head -- and summarily purchased a different Gift in its place. (My mistake, 'cause Spirit of the Fray, which I "re-purchased" in the last year, does seem to pay off.)

The tabletop system, per p. 142 of the core rulebook, goes:
"Once the character learns this Gift, its effects are permanent. The Ahroun may add 10 to all his initiative rolls, which will always nearly ensure that he strikes first. If he chooses, the Ahroun may spend a Gnosis point to add another 10 to his initiative roll. Remember, though, that doing so prevents him from spending Rage to gain extra actions; werewolves can't use Rage and Gnosis in the same turn."

On the next revision of the house rules, the application of this Gift solely to initiative -- and not to actual trait comparison for Physical Challenges -- will be made even clearer.

[Ash Paw]

Thanks for clarifying I was curious too

[Scorenzy]

Good to know for when I inevitalby buy it.

[HankMcormick]

Thank you for the clarification, it will be good to see it revised in the next set of house rules. As always, as the storytellers running the game, the House Rules are law.

But I gotta ask...

Why are we choosing to go with that interpretation of the rule, as opposed to the +10 trait on the initial challenge rule?

That interpretation only works if we are using the Order of Challenges (from page 170 LoTW) and we would be allowed to preempt Mental and Social actions with Physicals.

Are we not using the Mental, Social, Physical style of initiative?

[Founder]

You are correct, we're not using that style. In Werewolf, the aim is not so much to "preempt" but to Go First. Lots of Attribute Traits (with the oomph of a Gift like Spirit of the Fray, if relevant to the action), regardless of which of the three categories, generally mean Go First.

[Founder]

You are correct, we're not using that style. In Werewolf, the aim is not so much to "preempt" but to Go First. Lots of Attribute Traits (with the oomph of a Gift like Spirit of the Fray, if relevant to the action), regardless of which of the three categories, generally mean Go First.

I wanted to add, after years of playing the Social -> Mental -> Physical initiative order, I'm really happy to see initiative being run out of the book in the games I've been playing in (Carpe Noctum) and running (Wyld Prophets). It's ridiculous to think someone would need vampiric Celerity in order to punch someone in the face before they start mouthing off.

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